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Lee:
Welcome to the Event Engine Podcast. This is your host, Lee. I’m here with the one and only, it’s Mr. Nick Westerman. How are you, sir?
Nick:
Very well. Pleasure to be here.
Lee:
Thank you. Excellent. Nick, you are from the NHS Confederation. Could you tell us a little bit about that and your sofa our listeners.
Nick:
Sure. The NHS Confederation is a membership body that represents the NHS. We’re a lobbying group, not healthcare is our business, essentially. In terms of me, I’m Head of Strategic Partner events. Goodness knows what that actually means. Essentially, I run their big expo each year. Awesome.
Lee:
To help us picture what that looks like, could you describe what the expo would look like?
Nick:
Sure. It’s about 200-ish exhibitors, 195 content sessions, and about 7,000 people on site. Wow.
Lee:
And is that just once a year?
Nick:
Just once a year. Yeah, more.
Lee:
Than that. I was going to say it sounds exhausting just listening to it. So you’re enjoying being a part of an event rather than running it?
Nick:
Very much so for today.
Lee:
Now, today we’re going to talk about sustainability. I would, first of all, love to hear from you your reason why event organisers should take sustainability seriously. Well, the problem with.
Nick:
Sustainability, let’s start there, is that events are not sustainable.
Lee:
Take this behind me. I’m not sure we can reuse it.
Nick:
Exactly. It’s not for want of trying, and it is fundamentally important that we do at least try and introduce sustainable practises as far as possible. If we’re going to continue to deliver events like this, we have to be mindful of our carbon footprint. We have to be mindful of the fact that travelling to these things is hugely costly for the environment, for individuals. It means that it is something that is our moral and social responsibility to do better because there is only one planet at the end of the day. And yes, our time on this, putting on events and running the expos is part of that. But if we are going to continue to do so, then sustainability has to now sit at the core of that.
Lee:
So it’s not something that is a nice to have. I think you’re saying this is an essential practise both for the environment and just for our moral duty to society.
Nick:
I think so. I think so, very much so.
Lee:
What are the biggest mistakes you think that event organisers might be making when it comes to trying to be sustainable?
Nick:
They’re looking only at their parts within the sustainability ecosystem. They’re thinking, Well, we will make sure that our travel and the parts that we contribute to the show are as low carbon impact as they could possibly be. But actually, if we only take those in isolation, then you get very close to greenwashing. Because take an expo like this, anything that’s got a space-only build where someone has come in and they’re using timber and they’re using MDF and they’re using all sorts of acrylic-based paints or anything that essentially is going in the bin after today, that’s all part of the impact of this show. That’s all part of the show’s sustainability. They wouldn’t be here if we weren’t putting on this show. I think as an event organiser, it’s our responsibility to also say to particularly space-only builders, we want you to work within these parameters. This is the most sustainable way of building your standard. These are our objectives for the whole event, and that applies to you too.
Lee:
That’s really interesting because I’ve made that mistake. I, as the event organiser, have just considered what is my impact, how much am I spending, where am I sourcing my foods from? All those sorts of things. And that’s actually a very small part of the overall picture. I had exhibitors bringing all of their own kit. A lot of the stuff got thrown out. They had all this extra swag that didn’t get taken, etc, and very often they just leave the boxes and off they go, etc. There is an awful lot of voice, as you say. How could an event organiser then start to approach sustainability at a more holistic level? Because it does feel a little overwhelming now that we’ve said that because of all these different moving parts. How could they get started and climb that mountain, as it were?
Nick:
Being brutally honest, it is overwhelming. I think most people who are waking up to sustainability because I feel like pre-pandemic, pre-2020, sustainability actually wasn’t something that we considered. The world reset itself in 2020. Then as we’ve come out of that and we’ve gone back to having big live events, sustainability now actually is fundamental, but very few are aware of how to approach that. From my perspective, and this is something that we’re doing with our show, we’ve brought in an expert. We brought in someone to say to us, Okay, what can you materially change? Let’s do a base level of what you’re currently doing with your show, and here are some suggestions. Here are some ways of improving what you’re currently doing and reducing your carbon footprint overall. And I think essentially asking for help. That’s how you approach this because you can spend hours reading stuff online and reduce this and make sure that you don’t have paper there because that’s sinful. Make sure that you only use reusable coffee cups, et cetera, et cetera. But if you then try and do all of that at your events, A, you’re not going to achieve it because it’s expensive, and B, you’re probably going to find yourself in an early grave actually trying to do it because it’s not achievable all in one go.
Nick:
It’s very much a journey that you’ve got to go on.
Lee:
And is it fair to say that no event can ever be 100 % sustainable? It’s just a level, a percentage that we need to try and achieve?
Nick:
Essentially, yeah. We’ve been working with a company called Events Decision, who measured our 2022 show and said that we were in the 54th percentile of all shows that they had measured for the amount of carbon that we were producing as a result of our show. Our 2023 show, after them giving us some really decent recommendations, dropped to the 47th percentile. Where we want to be getting to, though, is the 20th or 30th percentile. That’s our aim. And the only way that we’re going to be able to do that is to keep on going on this journey with them where they say to us, Right, the things that you need to tackle more than anything else are delegate accommodation, delegate travel, and your space-only stance. Uniting those three things and mandating to all those people that we expect you to travel using public transport. Please don’t drive to the venue. If you feel like you are travelling from London to Manchester and you think that getting on a flight is the right way to do that, don’t. Granted, getting a train in this country can be problematic. But it’s a downside better than getting on a plane.
Nick:
Yes. So mandating that thing to our delegates. Same with our space-only contractors, mandating to them that they should only be using particular materials, that they should only be using certain floor coverings that haven’t been bonded in a particular way that means that they can’t be recycled. Stopping more stuff going to landfill is what’s right for sustainability.
Lee:
I think what we’re saying here is that trying to run a sustainable event is certainly overwhelming. You’re never going to get 100 %, especially not straight away. You need to measure. Before you even do that, you need to find the experts. Sorry, let’s reiterate, you need to find the experts first, then do the measurement, take their advice, make the relevant changes starting with you, the organiser, and then try and also educate the people taking part, that’s both the attendees and your exhibitors, continue to measure and to continue to then try and improve year on, year out as you develop.
Nick:
But also explain that to every person, every stakeholder who’s involved with your event. So looking at the floor here at Even Tech Live, they’ve chosen not to carpet it. I think that’s actually brilliant. Obviously, carpet is one of those things that constantly ends up in landfill. I know that a lot of providers are now able to recycle it, which is fantastic, and it gets turned into plastic pellets and then could be reused for bottle making and stuff like that. But that’s actually quite rare for that to be the case. So asking yourself, Well, do I need carpet live in? On one hand, you’re probably thinking, Well, it’s going to save me 20 grand doing this. Great. But no one here is thinking, Oh, my God, this is outrageous. How dare they not carpet this again?
Lee:
Actually, on that, I actually thought that. I came in and I was like, Oh, the floor is a bit mucky. But as the days progressed, I realised how unimportant that was. I’ve not looked at the floor once, no one has, and we’ve still had loads of people at our stand, and we’ve had some incredible conversations, including this. You are totally right. That’s a perception I have, I had initially, that was.
Nick:
Completely trashed. But it should be something that the ETL folks actually wanted to talk about and say, Well, we’re not doing this because it’s going to affect the carbon footprint of the show. You’re here helping us achieve our sustainable objectives. And part of that is we’ve chosen not to do this. Is it impacting your show? No.
Lee:
Because, well, thankfully as well, everyone else. I mean, a few people, I think, have carpeted their own area, but most people here have just chosen to go with the floor as it is, which is phenomenal. That’s something I hadn’t noticed, and I think that highlights there for, doesn’t it? The importance of an expert or someone with insight. Obviously, I’m not saying you’re an expert in sustainability, but you have learned an awful lot more than me. This is a great example of how I haven’t even thought of the carpeting on the floor or that overall impact. As I walked down here, we’re at the Excel in London right now. There’s another event going on just down the way there. They’ve carpeted the entire venue. It’s the same similar square footage as this. And that’s an awful lot of wastage because I assume they’re not… It’s cut up in all sorts of different shapes to allow for the design. There’s no way they’re going to be able to use that and that is going to go in landfill. That’s actually quite shocking. Something as simple as that. Now, you mentioned earlier on about the experts that we should connect with.
Lee:
How did you go about finding the company that you worked with? And also what was the name again?
Nick:
So it’s Event Decision. And we were here at Excel, I think it must have been 2022, came to Convex. They had a tiny stand. They had nothing to tell us what they were doing. My colleague who I’m actually here today with said, Why don’t we go speak to this person? We’re wandering around the exhibition. We’ve spoken to a few people. Let’s go find out what on-earth event decision is. Matt from Event Decision was hugely engaging, hugely knowledgeable, and was such a warm character that actually we thought, Well, this is someone who really knows what they’re doing. I think over the course of maybe five minutes talking to him, we were converted to, Everything you’ve been doing with your event so far is wrong. You haven’t been addressing sustainability, but I can help. And we thought, Right, well, yeah, let’s go.
Lee:
I’m sure he was able to have the conversation with you, get some information from you and offer in some valuable insights into what you were already doing wrong. So he was demonstrating he already knew some of the issues. Exactly that. Throw in, of course, a magnetic personality and energy and enthusiasm, which obviously sounds like it led to one of the main factors of your decision, alongside, Oh, this guy clearly understands. Precisely. Okay, well, that’s very helpful. We’ll make sure folks in the podcast episode that we also leave a link to Event Decision. I’m assuming their decision to have a very small stand was part of the sustainability. Because again, if I think of what we’ve done with our stand, we have purchased things. We tried this year to make sure that we publish, create anything that can be reused again for next year. This year, we didn’t put dates on… I’m not very wise, but still wise. There’s no dates. We’ve used vanity URLs as well that we know we can change for other purposes, etc, So that if we need to, we can put them on, etc. The only one thing we couldn’t do was this backdrop behind us because this was part of the actual event, so I don’t know whether they can give us it or whether we can use it again.
Lee:
I have no idea.
Nick:
Unlikely, however, what I would say is that this is a printed backdrop. They’ve not attached it to a timber frame or anything like that. They’re using a system called either Alley Vision or B-Metrix. By the look of it, which is entirely reusable. Actually, sustainability is still baked into what’s happening here. Oh, good. Because you’ve not got a custom-built set piece.
Lee:
Also feels like cloth of some.
Nick:
Sort as well. I imagine it’s some form of vinyl. Yeah. But yeah, there are clearly considerations that have happened to you that have gone, Okay, one element of this may not be sustainable. But what we will do is to make sure that it’s attached to things that are not also custom built. There is a lot of reusable stuff going on here.
Lee:
Yeah, absolutely. My colleague Tim was in here yesterday and he saw them building everything. So all of the construction material is all stuff that they can repurpose multiple times as well, which is phenomenal. And again, thank you for that insight because I actually had no idea. Also, the furniture that we got here was all rented from here, which again, is all reusable. Presumably, they’re going to use this at multiple.
Nick:
Events, etc. Well, also the fact that it’s not come on the back of a truck from elsewhere, some warehouse in Norwich or something like that. Immediately, we’re reducing the carbon footprint.
Lee:
Yeah, absolutely. Funny you mentioned earlier as well in regard to travel, we actually had the conversation with somebody who actually came from near Manchester and it took them five hours to get here on the train. And I actually just, again, me not thinking about sustainability said, Oh, it would have been easier to get a plane. And of course, it would have been easier.
Nick:
It’s there’s an element of weighing up the personal responsibility there. Because don’t get me wrong, train travel is a dream. It took me three hours to get here from Leeds. I don’t think I’ve had a successful journey to London this year on a train, which wasn’t delayed, cancelled, wrong type of leaves on the track, whatever it might be. But it’s still more important to me that I would get a train regardless of all those delays, because getting on a plane for the 45 minutes when you’re in the air is completely irresponsible.
Lee:
Well, I’ve made myself sound terrible. Thankfully, though, I don’t do that. I do also take the train. But three hours from Leeds, that’s a good record, mate. That sounds all right. And plenty of time to relax on the journey, I think. It depends what’s going on with the train, I imagine. As we’re coming into land, there was a comment you mentioned earlier on, and I’ve been meaning to ask you, what does the word greenwashing mean?
Nick:
Greenwashing is where you are painting a picture that you are being more sustainable than you actually are. You tend to see this where people are purchasing offsets in a bid to put claims that they’re carbon neutral or have achieved net zero, which are two very, very different things. So particular carbon neutrality, where people are saying, Right, my event produced zero carbon. Even though we had trucks there, we had loads of people travelling by plane, rail, whatever it might be. We didn’t care about the food that we were putting out there, but we’ve planted 1,000 trees, and we’ve paid a scheme that’s planted 1,000 trees, and therefore that’s going to offset our carbon output for the event. That is greenwashing. It’s absolute nonsense because.
Lee:
Yes.
Nick:
We’ve already put the carbon out there, but also carbon capture from trees and other slightly less reputable schemes can take up to 100 years to recapture the carbon that you have put into the atmosphere. So it’s not going to happen in your lifetime. It’s not going to happen in the lifetime probably of any of the people that were at your events. And that’s also assuming those trees do actually go on to survive because depending on where they’ve planted and whether or not they’ve been looked after and all that stuff, it’s outrageous, actually. Thinking that you can pay your way out of it, I can have an absolutely atrocious event from the perspective of my carbon footprint. But don’t worry, I’ve paid money. And it’s all right. We’re all good. It’s drivel. It’s absolutely drivel. Whereas working towards net zero, which is genuinely making an impact, so it’s making sure that there’s no wastage from your event. Anything that could be going to landfill is diverted from landfill. Whether that be going to recycling centres, whether that be in food waste now ending up in compost, whether that be taking any of the food waste and giving it to local charities to redistribute to homeless people.
Nick:
It might be that you choose not to have your carpet at all future events. It might be that you ban your exhibitors from ever bringing a leaflet to site and going entirely paperless. It might be ensuring that you’re using technology to the best of your ability. That might be that you’re now having a hybrid event where you’ve chosen to have fewer people in person because you can now live stream everything that’s going on here. First Sight Media doing a great job here at Event Tech Live for that.
Nick:
It could be that your app has got everything you could possibly need on it because you’ve got all your speaker presentations on there. You’ve got everything that you need to know about the show. Those are the things that are going to work towards Carbon Net Zero, and it’s something that we as event organisers would love to achieve. I don’t think we’re going to get there, if I’m perfectly honest, because events aren’t sustainable. I come back to the first thing I said, but we can certainly do a hell of a lot more to get to that point.
Lee:
Well, I will butcher this statement, but there was something that was read at my by my brother-in-law, and he said, If you aim for the moon, even if you miss, you’ll still fall amongst the stars, or something along those lines. But you may never get to net zero, but like you’re pushing for in the 20 to 30 percentile, you’re aiming high and you’re slowly getting there. Over time, you’re learning the lessons, you’re getting the experts involved as well to help you on that journey. You’re making tough decisions. You’re educating people as well, which I think is extremely important. You’ve educated me today on just the carpet alone was something I didn’t realise, which hopefully Adam and the team can do even better next year in communicating these things. They probably have. I’ve probably just not read the email, to be fair. Emails have come out. I’m not the best email reader, so Adam, if you’re listening, don’t hit me. But yeah, that’s totally fantastic and very insightful. I guess as we come into land then, are there any resources, any associations, etc, that folks might be able to follow or connect with just to learn a bit more about event sustainability?
Nick:
There certainly are. I would recommend looking up ILA. They’re exhibiting here at Event Tech Live. They are a fantastic resource for all things event sustainability. There are a huge number of resources online too, but again, I’m going to push them because we’re working with them, event decision. I would absolutely recommend people just having a mutual conversation with them. I think your eyes would be opened by how quickly you can change things on your event.
Lee:
That’s fantastic. Ilaa for online information and resource, they’re also here and event decision. Nick, thank you so much for your time. You have opened my eyes and educated me significantly. I really appreciate it. It’s been a pleasure. Folks, let us know in the comments over on the website what your biggest takeaway from this episode was. Nick, before we go, how are you enjoying the event?
Nick:
Oh, it’s wonderful. It’s absolutely wonderful. It’s such a buzzy atmosphere. The content that’s going on on the stage is brilliant. I’ve had some really great discussions with some potential new suppliers. And also, there are so many people here that I actually know that it’s just delightful to catch up with him.
Lee:
That’s the great thing. Throughout the day, just, Oh, all right. How’s it going? And then having a little ketchup. And now a new face. I’ve made a new friend you Nick. Thank you so much. Take care and enjoy the rest of your day.
Nick:
Thank you.
